Thursday, August 13, 2009

Christian Claim #3 - Parents Will Be Prosecuted for Not Seeking Health Care

I've been dying to get to this one.

Chaplain Gordon James Klingenschmitt said the following:

Can a government-run hospital still allow Christian chapels, or pay Christian chaplains, or permit Christian doctors to pray Christian prayers with their willing patients, or even allow Christian parents to control the health care options forced upon their dying children?
Ask Pentecostal Ministers Dale and Leilani Neumann, who were charged with second-degree murder of their 11-year-old daughter, because they refused to trust the power of a government hospital to heal their little girl who tragically died with diabetes.

Dale and Leilani Neumann are already in deep shit. So deep, in fact, that they've already been found guilty of second-degree reckless homicide and are awaiting sentencing in October.

The truth is, Dale and Leilani didn't just "refuse to trust the power of a government hospital to heal their little girl." They refused to trust anyone at all. Little Kara died at age 11 from ketoacidosis - a common (and entirely treatable) consequence of untreated diabetes. She had last seen a doctor at the age of 3.

Dale and Leilani wanted to pray her well. They sat there and prayed while their daughter died a death that was easily preventable. Even when she quit breathing they didn't call the ambulance or a doctor. A friend of the family who was present called them. An aunt who lived in California, hundreds of miles away from Wisconsin called them. But mom and dad - mom and dad didn't call them. They knew Kara was sick - they knew she was very sick - they had sent an urgent text message days before her death asking for prayers, they asked friends to come over and pray with them. They were told by still other friends to seek medical assistance in the days preceeding their daughter's death. But no, they didn't call them. Not before she died, not while she was dying and not after she died. Instead, they prayed.

Those parents didn't fear a "government run" hospital - they simply didn't believe in medicine at all. Not Government medicine, not Jewish medicine, not Christian medicine, not ancient Indian tribal medicine - they believed in the power of prayer and it failed them.

And so, if we accept that prayer failed them, we must also accept that they failed their daughter. A tragedy all the way around - but light-years away from having anything at all to do with the currently proposed health bill.

Would they be held accountable under the new health plan? Maybe so. But what would be different about that? They're being held accountable now. A jury of their peers decided they were guilty of second degree reckless homicide. I doubt they'd be any more or less guilty regardless of what health plan is covering the nation.

One other little "exaggeration" I'd like to address: Chaplain Klingenschmitt states that both parents are Pentacostal ministers - they're not. Dale studied to become one but what he actually did was run Monkey Mo's Coffee Shop and hold bible studies in his home. He and his wife are followers of an online ministry called Unleavened Bread Ministry.

Small point but one that pits hyperbole and wishful thinking against truthfulness.

Score one for wishful thinking and hyperbole.

The truth is - The Neumans are not Pentacostal ministers and the government's not trying to take over your children. The government's trying to keep your children alive.

The proposed health care bill is not trying to take over your children - it's trying to assure that your children, my children, all God's children have access to health care when needed and/or desired.

It's sad that Kara died - but Kara would have died regardless of her health care options. Kara's parents weren't agonizing over which health care plan to choose. She didn't die because the only option available was a federally funded and managed care system that her parents didn't trust. Kara died not because her parents didn't trust government run hospitals - she died because her parents didn't believe in medicine at all. They believed that prayer, and only prayer, cures and conquers all.

A national health care plan has nothing to do with it and it's a cheap shot as well as an outright lie to claim that it was fear of government which caused Kara's death or that will continue to cause still more needless deaths of our children.

Kara died. The government didn't cause it. Fear of the goverment didn't cause it.

Diabetes caused it. Ketoacidosis caused it. Her parent's refusal to intelligently acknowledge the severity of her illness, to accept the limitations of prayer, to get their heads out of their asses and take the child to a doctor or a hospital where they could continue to pray while Kara's disease was being medically managed and treated as it deserved to be treated caused it.

Obama's plan can't save the Kara's of the world - but it can save hundreds of thousands of other children whose parents do recognize the severity of their children's illnesses and who, if only they had insurance, would not only be morally and mentally willing but would also finally be financially able to seek the assistance of the medical professionals who can save them.

The Lord works in mysterious ways - perhaps medicine in one of them.


Mike said...

You're are obviously "un-American". How do you feel being called a "Nazi" for speaking your beliefs and exercising your freedom of speech? Not so good huh? The radical, liberal left should be ashamed of themselves and are truly contributing to the death of a once great country. I also believe our constitution still protects(won't protect bleep when Karl Marx, AKA Barry Hussein Obama is finished) freedom of religion under our esteemed first amendment. Did you even follow up to see if the parents regularly visited "doctors". If not one could easily conclude the "peers" were incorrect and uninformed. If they didn't personally use western or any medicine for that matter due to religious beliefs then they are clearly exercising religious freedom and therefore not culpable for murder of any degree. It is sad and safe to say that the ignorance in this country is appalling. The disrespect our liberal left leaning democratic leaders have for our constitution needs to be addressed and in a real American's opinion is worthy of treason charges!

Lo said...

Gosh, golly, where do I start?

1) I'm Jewish-by-marriage, so if you're calling me a Nazi and asking me how I feel about it - well, honestly, I find it rather humorous. Only because I know what a Nazi really is and apparently you're a bit confused about it.

2) Make up your mind - is Obama a Nazi or is he Karl Marx? They're two different things, in case you didn't know. Seeing how the conservative right throws the terms Nazi, Socialist, Marxist and Communist around rather interchangeably I'm pretty sure most of them don't even KNOW there's a considerable difference much less understand what that difference is.

3} Have you "followed up" on the family's religious beliefs or medical practices? If so, please enlighten us. If not, don't ask me questions you can't answer yourself. Since both parents had lawyers I am pretty sure their health care practices were brought into play - a good lawyer would find a good defense - if there were one to be found.

4) They were found guilty of second degree reckless homicide. Not by me but by a jury. Regardless of what you consider "religious freedom" a juty and a judge and a legal system (an American legal system) disagreed with you.

5) You are right about one thing, tho. The ignorance in this country is appalling.

Mike said...

Thanks for the reply Lo.

1) not sure whether you are male or female but that makes a large difference in terms of passing the religion along through generations especially if it were by marriage. If you are a woman your child will not technically be Jewish but I digress. I am quite familiar with what the term Nazi entails as well as the tactics that were employed under the rule of the fuhrer. Sounds like a typical liberal statement to think he/she understands something she or he is not by birth and therefore really not privy to what it truly means to be Jewish. Especially in terms of the atrocities that occurred. But we can probably both agree the holocaust did in fact happen.

2) Either way they both are to the detriment of society, the free flow of capital and ideas, and based on that mutual relationship they both in fact can be used as comparison to how Barry is neglecting the constitution as well as the people. BTW I know the difference quite extensively...have written economic theses on all three and they all achieve the end goal of reduced competition, too strong of labor unions, stunted growth, high unemployment, and tremendous wealth redistribution just to name a few of the unintended consequences.

3/4) So do you agree with Ricci vs New Haven? A slightly contradictory statement on your part: both lower courts agreed with her decision that was subsequently and correctly overturned based on the law...Does that mean the Supreme Court was wrong because the appeals court held up the original ruling? Juries are often not necessarily always given proper instruction by the presiding judges in terms of applying the law in question in their decision.

5) Mutual agreement I concur.

The bottom line is this administration is trying to incorporate into law ideas, laws, regulation, rules, etc. that preclude the intent of our founding fathers and our constitution. We were escaping high taxes and government control clearly on a path to socialism to build something based on the free market and free flow of capital with limited government... The prospect of prosperity without your money being taken to pay for people without the drive to succeed. I'll be the first to admit many Republicans in the recent past look more like liberals in their spending, however, it does not even come close to the money being spent/borrowed/printed(however you prefer to classify it) by this administration and "a" god(trying to be pc) forbid if this healthcare bill passes in its current form. One thing is true about some of the criticisms: it is a trojan horse to socialism. And if that is not clearly obvious please read the bill and let me know if you have questions on the economic consequences of such legislation because Obama is not telling the truth to the American people because if he did the bill wouldn't have a chance in hell.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to point out, though it's a minor point in this context, that in Reform Judaism jewishness can indeed be passed on throguh the father. Half my genes, most of my facial features, and a fair bit of my cultural background is Jewish. If someone wants to say I'm a gentile because of my mother, that's their issue--it cannot change who I am.

Mike said...

Anonymous, I apologize if I offended you and am no way claiming to be an expert or even a novice in terms of that type of knowledge. I was merely making a point that Lo used a typical liberal tactic to argue without adding any relevance or real information. The tactic was simply not addressing the issue at hand but using Saul Alinsky's rules for radicals number five I believe of ridicule to create anger in your opponent. And to point out Anonymous, Lo mentioned it was by marriage and based on that point alone I felt she had no context to be referring to her relationship between judaism and the "Nazis" from which she has absolutely no direct experience. As a child you at least have the teachings of experience from your parents regarding their sacrifices. Last but not least, Lo acted like a typical radical uninterested in the truth but rather interested in the promotion of big government. I didn't call Lo a "Nazi". I simply asked how it felt being called one for expressing an opinion. This is correlated with how the Obama-adoring media like to characterize peaceful citizens with concerns as Nazis and hate mongers. It is insane. When liberals stone, shoot, and rock presidential motorcades that is peaceful protest by citizens. When black panthers carry batons to voting booths and threaten caucasian voters that is just exercising their right to vote. But when an elderly caucasian lady asks a legitimate question at a town hall meeting, that is somehow un-American. GIANT BS and is time the un-American liberal radicals are exposed for the scum they are.